In my last post I wrote of a question I was asked by a friend in regards to my regeneration, or what she called being 'elect'. Her letter contained more than one question, although her questions all centered on the same subject. Now I'd like to share her next question and my response to it.
She said, "At the point of believing that God predestines a group to hell-then boom! I am 'elect'."
Here is my response:
"Yes and no. Yes, there does come the moment of regeneration-of the new birth-but NEVER at any point in their life was anyone predestined for salvation headed to hell. The Lord ALWAYS knew that person was His. There just comes that moment when He regenerates them-resulting in a BOOM! moment even if they don't know when it happened.
Next you said, "as we have seen, people who believe in that tend to think free will believers are devilish and almost 'hate' them-as the lady on your blog." Some do feel that way, yes, but not all of them. As I've stated before the belief or lack of belief in free will is a dividing line between people that believe in Christ. Both sides can't be right. One side has to be wrong. As I've also stated before-most people are CERTAIN that what they believe is right...
You said, "Why don't you hate Arminians?...that has been the tone since the reformation." ...Some people get so stuck in their 'I am right' stance that they cannot accept anothers faith or extend grace to them...
'Forgive them Father for they know not what they do'. I believe those lost in the free will deception are blinded to the Truth because God has blinded them. I believe (they) cannot see these Truths because God has blinded (them) to them and nothing you or I do can change that, only the Lord can open (their) eyes to these Truths.
And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
I believe free will to be the strong delusion, the LIE, spoken of in that verse.
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. 2 Corinthians 4:3 KJV
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. ESV
And so I don't try to convert (them)...because I see in Scripture that (they) believe God's great delusion. (They) CAN'T see what I see in Scripture so what's the point of me badgering (anyone) about it?...I truly don't think (they) can do anything but hold to (their) works based salvation. (They're) doing all that (they) can to attain salvation for (them) and (their) children and there is no fault in that. Christ said,
For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matthew 11:30
It is man's works that make burdens of the Gospel but again "...they know not what they do." So I don't try to convert (them) to my way of believing because I can't convert (them) even if I try my hardest.
...And so you went on to say, "yet it is the free will group that respond in love-as Jesus taught us to do." I can only agree with that to a point. Arminians do hold to a loving acceptance on the surface. They generally welcome anyone into their groups and are not usually openly hostile but that love is also only at a surface level. Push them on their free will belief and they will pretty much all lose the facade of love REAL QUICK...They love so long as you embrace their 'Jesus loves you god' and share their faith in their free will...
Toward the end of your letter you wrote, 'anyway, it's reallys just one question- if someone who believes in free will just all of a sudden starts believing that God is as Calvin stated-then that person automatically becomes 'elect' or no?"
Let me just start by saying...The belief that God controls all and man is depraved without a free will is not the teaching of Calvin. It is the teaching of the Apostles. Of Christ. Of God. It's all through Scripture but it's only there to those that have had the scales removed from their eyes so that they can see the Truth. It is veiled or hidden to the rest. It's not Calvin's teachings. It's Christ's teachings. Calvin is just the man given credit for summarizing it all and so many attribute true Christianity as being Calvinist, removing Christ from it entirely.
Forget Calvin ever existed...wipe thoughts of him and his teachings from your mind...you have accused me time and again of following him despite the fact that I know only his name, who he was (sort of) and a vague notion of what he taught. I DO NOT follow Calvin. I follow Christ. Period.
But back to your question, I think I partly answered it when I summarized how I came to believe this way but that summary did not really answer the base of this question, "If someone who believes in free will just all of a sudden starts believing that God is as Calvin stated-then that person automatically becomes 'elect' or no?"
I do not believe so, no. And here's why I say that. I once showed (4 people) Ephesians 1 and asked them to tell me exactly what they saw in it. I did exactly what (my husband) did to me. I only asked each of (them) to tell me what they saw. I gave no explanations. Before I tell you what happened let me tell you what each of (them) believe.
(person 1- believes in free will. Has anabaptist leanings)
(person 2)- Believes (themselves) a christian...(free will belief)
(person 3) typical Baptist 'church', easy believism, free will, faith
(person 4)- Pagan
And here were the results:
(Person 1)- asked me what I wanted (them) to see, would not tell me what (they) saw.
(Person 2)- gave me some mumbo jumbo answer that made no sense
(Person 3)- said it says we must choose to believe in Jesus
(Person 4)- told me all about how it speaks of predestination.
Of all of (them) (the pagan) was the only one that approached it without man's teachings, or (their) own preconceived ideas of what it said. And (they) were the only one that spoke of, that saw, predestination in those verses...
And so I say, no. The ability to see these Truths in Scripture does not make one 'elect' as you put it or better, it does not mean one is regenerated in the new birth.
I know Presbytarian 'churches' teach these Truths as do Reformed 'churches'. It's possible for one to be taught these things-giving them a head knowledge- so that they understand them, can read them in Scripture, can even teach them to others, but that knowledge stays only in their heads, their hearts have not been changed. They are not born again.
I tend to believe that this is the problem with most people that do not believe in free will yet show hate and I believe it explains how they might almost 'hate' Arminians or anyone holding to different beliefs than they do. Their heads are puffed up in knowledge, believing 'I'm right' but their hearts are hard as stone, as dead man's bones. They have cleaned the outside of their cup but inside they are filthy and no different than every other lost soul.
But that is merely my theory since Scripture doesn't actually tell us what to make of those that profess Truths but show no fruit. I choose to simply take them as I do those that profess Christ but believe in free will- their profession in Christ is enough for me. I will let the Lord sort it out. He knows who are His. It is enough that I should see to my own soul and those entrusted to me, as much as I can. I would not , however want to spend much time with those putting their faith in men's teachings and lacking fruit no matter what they see in Scripture.
...The thing is though, that there is comfort in that great delusion of free will. (Those that believe in it) have the comfort of believing that (they) can gain their children's salvation if (they) can just teach them to 'chose' Christ. Once your eyes are opened to the Truth that man's free will IS a delusion than you're left with the knowledge that teaching anyone to 'chose' Christ is non-Scriptural and gains nothing but a false sense of security. And so it gets hard.
It gets hard because I know that it doesn't matter how much I teach (anyone) of Christ, no matter how much Scripture they know, I CANNOT attain their salvation. Salvation is of God, not of man. It is His will that gives salvation not our will that gains it. "
And here is where I will quit sharing the contents of my letter to a beloved friend, a personal letter that I have chosen to make public because the questions were wonderful questions and because I felt led to share my answers lest anyone, at any time, ever has the same questions.
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