Wednesday, June 6, 2018

Why the writings of men?

The other day I was given a somewhat roundabout invitation to join a group online. This group was a supposed Calvinist group and it was said to be enjoyable to those holding to the same beliefs I do. Out of curiosity and the desire to occasionally see what others of the Reformed faith are speaking of, I joined the group only to discover almost immediately that whatever these 'calvinists' were, they did not share my beliefs.

I had not been in the group long, just long enough to look around a tiny bit, when I came across one post that I felt the need to question, not for myself but because the 'logic' they were using in their argument could not be considered 'logic' by my mind. I will most likely write about that encounter soon. Then just as I was about to gracefully bow out of their heretical group I saw another post. I couldn't help myself. This one begged a comment also. Here is the original statement:

"Some ironic humor for your day...
In another group, discussing the atonement, I made a comment about modern Calvinists not reading enough.
Someone took offense and claimed I needed to give sources and cite them.
I gave him roughly 10
Now I’m
Blocked. Lol"

I kept my response short and simple. I replied with: "Why would people need to read anything outside of Scripture? Is Scripture not enough?"

To which I received this reply: 


To say that we don't need teachers and pastors, writers and scholars is to impugn the wisdom of God who blesses us with these gifts. Eph. 4:11-16; Ecc. 12:11-12; 2 Tim. 4:13; Acts 8:28-35.


To which I received this reply: 
I debated on responding. I really did. My husband and I discussed it. We both agreed that it was pointless to continue the conversation. I wanted to simply thank the poster for their answer and remove myself from the group but in writing my simple answer, somehow my answer wasn't so simple. Then my husband got involved, telling me to give them this verse and that verse. As I wrote out my response someone else commented about 'modern Calvinists' and how they don't read enough and how we must look to history and... they gave a long explanation that somehow was, I suppose, supposed to convince me of the need to read the writings of men I had never even heard of before. I can't say I am for or against these historical writers because I have no idea who they were but it doesn't matter at all. They could have been referring to A.W. Pink and Charles Spurgeon and I would have responded the same. Why isn't Scripture enough? 
And so in the end we, my husband and I, wound up giving this reply. 

Thank you for explaining. I don't share that view but I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. I see where you are coming from and I particularly appreciate you using Scripture to explain. I will take just one of the verses above and expand on it. Ecc 12:11-12 says: "The words of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings; they are given by one Shepherd. 12 My son, beware of anything beyond these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh". I don't understand how that verse supports your claim. This verse says, "The words of the wise"...the wise referred to here are the prophets. The men of Scripture, not the philosophers and other so-called knowledgeable men of the time. It goes on to say, "like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings", or the holy writ, aka Scripture, "they are given by one Shepherd", the Shepherd is Christ. "Of many books there is no end", does that not plainly speak against books other than Scripture? Is it not talking of the learned men/philosophers/preachers/teachers, etc, of the time? And would that not carry through to our modern times today? "And much study wearies the body", that seems to clearly say, studying the writings of men is not profitable, it only wearies the body. As for the writings of men...I would ask one thing. Would they not fall into the category of "beware of anything beyond these (Scriptures from the Prophets). Of making many books there is no end"? Are we not warned against the writings of fallible men in this verse? Are we not pointed to the words of the Shepherd (Christ) and warned away from the writings of men? Christ himself used the term 'it is written'. What was written? He referred to the Scriptures. He also said, 'have you not read'. The Savior Himself pointed to Scripture not to men's writings. The very men that wrote the Scriptures were appointed to their task first, as prophets, by God, and later, as apostles, by Christ. They were assigned their very tasks by the Creator Himself. They were divinely appointed to preserve the Scriptures, or holy writ. Much as those handling the arc of the covenant were tasked with protecting that which was most sacred. Men, outside the apostles and prophets of old, are not divinely appointed to anything. Those that claim to be 'called' into something are not appointed to their task straight from God's hand. It's something in them that pulls them to that task. God/Christ alone appointed the apostles and prophets. Ephesians 4:11-16 says, "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[a] and teachers,[b] 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[c] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love." These men were directly appointed by God/Christ. They spoke because the Lord gave them the words to do so, the same as if God Himself directed the pen in their hands, which he did. Their word is infallible. It is Holy. It stands leagues above anything else ever written or that ever will be written. Hebrews 1:1-2 says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." Christ is the only teacher we need and even He said, 'have you not read', He says, 'it is written', referring to Scripture. He points people to His holy writings not to men's writings.2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," Scripture is all we need. The Bereans studied to learn and understand but it wasn't the writings of the preachers, teachers, philosophers, or even the man down the street that imagined himself educated and learned in the Scriptures to which they went. They went to Scripture. Times were different in Bible days, they didn't have the Scriptures as we have them, didn't have Bibles in their hands and in every bookstore they walk into. They couldn't pull Scripture up online. And yet, even in those days Ecc 12:11-12 clearly warns against books. Even if we choose to read the writings of men, wouldn't it be wise to be as the Bereans and study the Scriptures first? To learn them until we know the Lords wisdom so deeply that we can spot heretics and erroneous men in their writings? I fail to understand why anyone would suggest others, even 'modern Calvinists', read broadly, or any other way, of anything beyond Scripture. Paul was one of the greatest writers in the new testament, he was a well educated man of his time, and he said, "I have decided to know nothing among you but Christ and Him crucified" Why then should we know anything more than that? Do you not think Paul had access to philosophers? To teachers? To preachers? To other men just as educated as he was? And he turned his back, closed his mind, to the knowledge of men grabbing onto the wisdom of God. Paul says worldly wisdom is foolishness. Would the writings of men, even on the subject of Scripture, on Christ, not be considered worldly knowledge or wisdom? Solomon said it well, Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless’…For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, the more knowledge, the more grief" (Ecclesiastes 1:2,18). Scripture separates the definition of worldly knowledge and Scriptural, or Godly, wisdom. One is foolishness, the other wise. One leads to death, the other to life. The things of this world, including books written by so-called men of God, preachers and teachers, lead to an earthly, or human, understanding of what Scripture is, Godly knowledge gives Godly wisdom, imparted through the Holy Spirit, leading to salvation. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.
1 John 2:27. Is it not possible that the 'modern Calvinists' of which you say need to read more are reading more? Is it possible that they may simply be reading more of Scripture and are not interested in reading the writings of men when they have the writings of God at their very fingertips?

3 comments:

  1. Sister,

    Be WARY of 'Calvinists' and of those in the 'Reformed' camp. Many make idols out of their creeds, men, etc. Although I hold to the doctrines of grace, I will NOT allow myself to be labeled as a 'Calvinist', or any kind of Calvin label for that matter.

    You and your husband are wise to give a biblical response, then leave. There are multitudes of every 'stripe' that claim Christ, but once you dig deeper, you will see who they truly worship. The great falling away is not always as obvious as we think is it?

    The Lord bless you and keep you

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    Replies
    1. You are very right, Lyn. This particular group goes under the heading of something that one would think would identify them as more biblical minded believers. In fact their group name is such that it goes against their very own beliefs. I can only guess that maybe someone with different views started the group then left it to become what it is today. Still, my husband is surprised that they would be willing to identify themselves with something they so strongly stand against.

      My husband and I discussed the very issue with 'Calvinists' and others claiming to be 'reformed' today. This group is the perfect example why even those claiming to be 'calvinist' or 'reformed' are not something we should align ourselves with. The people in this group worship their logic and their ideals, and their men of old more than they do Christ. That was easily seen in the handful of posts I skimmed over, not even reading the content just snippets of them. It was reinforced when I questioned why Scripture wouldn't be enough. We will not be staying in this group. I have not yet removed my membership only because my husband and I thought it wise to wait and see if anyone commented on my response, mainly because elsewhere someone said there were those that rarely post, only lurk, and based off a couple of short comments I saw it looks as though there might be at least one person in that group that leans toward true Scriptural understanding. I will be removing myself from that group in the next day or two though.

      I find it truly sad that the great delusion has people so blinded that they cannot see what is right before them even among those that seem to almost be stumbling over much of Truth. I told my husband today that there seems to be an almost thread of the same material woven between those that cannot see the Truth, no matter what they believe. I have seen it in friends that play at the edges of Light. I have heard it in the relayed story of a relative that believes we are all angels here one earth, somehow bidding our time and finding our place in the heavenly realm. I saw it on this group. No matter the delusion they all seem to cling deeply to their own understanding, being blinded by worldly knowledge, often in the form of their own logic or that of 'godly' men of the past, and therefore fail to gain the wisdom of God. It is a sad thing but they dangle somewhere in the midst of professing believers and I know not how the Lord will sort them all out in the end. What I see as a tragic loss of Truth in their lives may be but a stopping spot on the way to their understanding and conversion. I once saw through water so muddy that I could not see the Truth. I struggled for clarity, feeling deeply that there was more to Christianity than I had been taught but unable to see the Light through the mud. 'Such were some of you'. I would not see Scripture as I do now had the Lord not given me sight to see. We can only pray that the Lord will call some out of their delusion and into His hand. We can also know from Scripture that as a whole, that number will be few and most will stay lost in their delusion. Their eyes have been blinded to the Truth and they believe and follow a lie just as Scripture tells us they will. All we can do is give them the Truth and leave them in the Lord's hands. They are, after all, His vessels to do with as he pleases.


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    2. Thank you for the warning against even those in the 'Reformed' and 'Calvinist' circles. It would appear that there are definitions in these man labeled circles that neither I, nor my husband, had heard before. I did not know that I would be labeled as a high calvinist or that their was a distinction between high and low Calvinist. Like you, I refuse to accept the label of Calvinist and truly only use the definition of Reformed because I need some way of separating myself and those that believe as I do from all the other professing Christians out there. Reformed is not a biblical definition so I suppose we should be wary of using it. We might be better served to call ourselves 'the ekklessia', 'the called out ones', or 'the way' as Scripture defines those that held to biblical Christianity. Hmm...something to think on.

      May the Lord be with you, dear sister.

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