Are you a fatalistic Christian?

I recently found myself in the midst of a conversation that eventually led to the other person asking me if I was a fatalistic Christian. I must admit the question stumped me because I had no idea what the term meant. After some research and a discussion with my husband I found myself before the computer trying to pull my thoughts and beliefs together as I pondered the answer I would give. I wasn’t intending to write out an answer at that time only to get my thoughts in order so that I could answer and in the end what I wrote was a reply.

 

You see…I believe what I see in Scripture…nothing more, nothing less. If what I see in scripture makes me a Christian fatalist then maybe I am but to me I simply believe what I see in Scripture.

 

The question as to whether or not I’m a fatalistic Christian wasn’t a question that came out of the blue. It was part of a bigger conversation (carried out through email) that had been going on for some time, gradually leading up to the point where the question was asked. That question and the conversation it was a part of has made me grow and learn as I wrote out my own answers. My own thoughts have been clarified, my own understanding taken deeper as I explained my position through each step of this conversation.

 

I believe that the very nature of how we approach Scripture affects what we believe and we get out of it. But it isn’t just that…those same beliefs are affecting how we see life and how we live out our faith.

 

In the last year I have done more studying and learning of scripture and the things of scripture than I ever have in my life. My beliefs have grown and changed as I’ve come to better understand my own beliefs. In all that learning I’ve learned that there are two ways to see the basics of God. We have God saving man or we have man working his way to God. And in those two ways of seeing it are two very different beliefs that affect pretty much all of how a person believes. It is what everything else boils down to. It’s the very basics of how we relate to all of Scripture.

 

As I see it…it is God saving us all on His own. There’s nothing we can do, have done, or will ever do that will or could have changed His decision to save us. On the other hand…the other way of approaching Scripture leads to a belief that something a person does places them into the position to attain salvation. That may be through their ‘choice’ to believe in Christ or it may be in their attempt to work their way into salvation in some way. But for me the only way I can see it is to start with God and only God. I can’t do anything but give all the credit to Him and none of the credit to me or anything I’ve ever done or will ever do.

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9 NASB)

 

 Either of those above views will affect not only how we believe but it will affect nearly every other thing we do in life. Those are fundamental beliefs that are the base of where so many of our other beliefs come from.

 

When I read Scripture I read it in black and white. As part of the conversation that led to the question about whether or not I’m a fatalistic Christian the topic of Eli came up. It was a rather long conversation that went back and forth for a while. But it was only a part of a much bigger conversation. The entire conversation spanned everything from Eli to marriage and the raising of children.

 

 Here is my response…

 

All I can see in Eli’s story is a man that was a priest…and so had to live an outwardly faithful and obedient life…who raised two son’s that sinned in adulthood. That Eli reprimanded them…possibly out of love…but failed to fulfill the duties of his position as priest and was punished for it. He took in a child that wasn’t his and possibly treated him as his own…shown in him calling Samuel ‘my son’…and in the end raised two son’s that ended up sinning and were destroyed as a result of it and one…almost…son that grew up to be righteous. That is what I see. And if you look to Eli’s story…that’s all that’s there. Nothing else. That is the black and white of Eli in Scripture.

 

If I were to take Eli’s story further I would have to point to Malachi 1:3 and Romans 9:13 where it says Jacob have I loved, Esau I hated. These were two brothers, raised by the same parents, what made the difference here? Why was one loved and the other hated? Did Esau gain the Lord’s hate because his parents failed to walk out an unfeigned faith in front of him? Did Jacob gain the Lord’s love because his parents did walk out an unfeigned faith? They were the same parents. It can’t be both ways…either the parents showed the kind of unfeigned faith you speak of or they didn’t. And yet they raised two sons that did not receive the same treatment from the Lord. One was loved, the other hated. Why? Because of something the parents did? Or maybe because…

 

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy Romans 9:15-16

 

If you want to look to the old testament…

 

18Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!" 19And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion." Exodus 33:18-19

 

Here, in the black and white of Scripture, I see the Lord loved Jacob and hated Esau because He chose to have mercy on one and not the other. Per Romans 9:16… then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. There’s no room in that…that I can see…for any actions either of the person being saved or not saved or of the parents. It’s all in the Lord’s hands…I will have mercy on whom I have mercy. Where does the parents actions come into that? Where does even our own actions come into it?

 

From there I look to Romans 9:22-23…

 

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, ²³ in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

 

I see no room in any of that for the outward displays of faith of any person in their salvation or in their children’s salvation. The Lord specifically said…I will have mercy on whom I have mercy. That’s it…all God…all Christ…no man. If that doesn’t spell it out enough I see in Romans 9:22-23 where it says he has prepared some for destruction in order to save those he has prepared for mercy. Again I see God…no man. It’s what He has planned, His design, His decree…nothing of man. Nothing of parents. Just God. 

 

Going back to Eli…we have three sons…three young men raised by the same man. Two were destroyed, one was chosen by God. Why? They were raised by the same person. If the dads unfeigned faith or lack of it was the reason for the sins of the two sons why didn’t the third one follow the same path? He had not only Eli as an example but Eli’s sons as well. Of the three if example was the reason for their destruction Samuel should have been the least likely to be saved. But the two sons were destroyed and Samuel was saved. Again…why? If the answer lies only in Eli’s unfeigned faith or lack of it…what made two wind up destroyed and the third saved?

 

If on the other hand we look at it in the black and white…we know nothing of Eli’s faith one way or the other beyond what we know of what it took to become a priest…and we know nothing of how he raised his children and Samuel and if we look first to God…His plan, His purpose, His decree, His choice…and know that He loved Jacob and hated esau, who had the same parents setting the same example for them and if Scripture tells us…I will have mercy on whom I have mercy…and that there are ‘vessels of wrath prepared for destruction’ and ‘vessels of mercy’…what do we have? Could it possibly be that Eli’s sons were vessels of destruction? If I were to look to Eli’s story again and if I wanted to read anything of great significance into his story it would be…Now Eli’s sons were worthless men. They did not know the Lord. 1 samuel 2:12…the kjv says… Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the Lord. That wasn’t Eli’s failure. If the point of Eli’s story was to show us Eli’s failure as a parent to raise his children to have an ‘unfeigned faith’ would we not be told something like…Eli’s children were worthless because Eli’s faith wasn’t strong enough to point them in the right direction? If the purpose of Eli in the ot was to show us how not to parent our children wouldn’t we see that in the black and white of Scripture? Instead we see the story of the saving of one boy…which placed him into his place in the greater plan of God…and therefore of the salvation of the Elect…than we do of any other thing. We have two sons that were destroyed, one saved. Why?

 

I see vessels of destruction and a vessel of mercy. We know that only Christ was sinless therefore Samuel would have sinned. What made the sins of Eli’s sons any worse than the sins that Samuel committed? Were the sins of Eli’s sons so great that they earned them death while the sins of Samuel didn’t deserve the same? The only way that makes sense to me is to see it through the eyes of the black and white of Scripture…I will have mercy on whom I have mercy…and to see that quite possibly the sons were the vessels of destruction while Samuel was the vessel of mercy.

 

Does that make me a Christian fatalist? I don’t know. I guess it depends on how you see Christian fatalism. I do believe the Lord is sovereign in all, that’s it’s his creation…including people…to do with as he sees fit. I believe he will save His elect and won’t save the non-elect. I believe that there’s nothing we can do to become one of the elect and that there’s nothing we can do to keep from becoming one of the elect.

 

I don’t believe we can work our way to Christ. I don’t believe we can work our children to Christ. I don’t believe that if we just pump enough Scripture into them and set a good enough example we can get them to a place where God will ‘visit their hearts’. In Scripture we are commanded to teach the gospel…this is to our children as well as all others. We are to share it. Our faith…if we are truly regenerate should be a natural extension that manifests itself in ways that others will know we are different but I don’t believe we are to live out a system of works that will gain us closer access to the Lord. I don’t believe that if we can just act a certain way, teach our children a certain way, that the Lord will ‘visit their hearts’ or save them in any way. I believe that He will save them or not according to His will and not through anything we do or do not do. I don’t believe that if we can just live out a life of sinless perfection that He will in any way owe us anything where our children (or ourselves) are concerned.

 

If that was the way it worked neither my husband nor I would have been saved. Neither one of us ever had that ‘unfeigned faith’ lived out before us.

 

 To me…the outward showing of faith comes from an inward change. It’s the byproduct of what has happened in the heart and soul and has nothing to do with any physical or verbal actions on our part. If our salvation is real then the Lord will change our heart and our lives will show that but it will be because it is a natural manifestation of the changes of our hearts and souls and not a conscious, outward work that we do because we are trying to reach God.

 

No matter how good we are, no matter how religious we are, no matter how many outward works we do…we can’t reach Christ, or get our children to Christ. Only He can save us (or them) and He will do that or not no matter what we do or do not do.

 

I don’t believe faith is inherited. I don’t believe we can live out our faith in a way that our children will ‘catch’ it the way they would the chicken pox. I believe that our children will be influenced by us, by our lives and actions, by our beliefs and faith but that they will in no way be saved because of them. Their salvation rests in the Lords hands and nowhere else.

People can show a belief they do not feel. This can show up in the way they dress, their commitment to a physical church building, the way they raise their children, the things they say or do. Just because they show an outward system of works that makes them look to be a Christian that doesn’t mean they have been saved by the Lord.

 

Everything we do should be in obedience to the Lord. We are to try and avoid all sin but when we fail…no if, but when…we are forgiven in Christ.

 

 

This brings me back to where I was before. My belief is that our faith comes straight from the Lord. It is not a result of anything we have done nor is it a result of anything our parents did or did not do in raising us. It is the Lord’s will to draw us to him and to save us and it is a gift from Him that should be seen as such. With no assumption that we can work our children into the same gift or that if we can live out a life of works that He will somehow owe us the salvation of our children. That was a very difficult point for me to get around. And to accept.

 

All of that to say everything I do, every view I have on life, stems from the belief that it is God that saved me and I can’t work my way to Him.

 

Is that Chrsitian fatalism? See it as you want to but for me it is nothing more than putting my life into my Lord’s hands and accepting whatever plan He has in place for me.

 

 I do not believe in free will. We are God’s creations. He does with us what He wants to do with us. That includes the miniscule things in our lives as well as the huge things in our lives. We are His whether we want to be or not, whether we acknowledge His existence or not, and He does with us what He wants to. (This was in response to a comment of us acting out of our own free will)

 

Either we believe God is sovereign or we don’t. If he is sovereign than everything…great and small…are within his command. If He isn’t sovereign than He really has no control.

 

If believing what I see in Scripture and believing that the Lord controls everything in His creation makes me a fatalist believer then that’s what I am. As I saw recently…’In the beginning God. Not ‘in the beginning man’. The Lord created all…people included…He saves who he wants to and doesn’t save who he wants to and all that we are is within His control and plans.